Alejandro Grajal: Woodland Park Zoo Saves Wildlife

[00:00:00] Jonathan Sposato: Hello everyone and welcome to Seattle Magazine, the voice of our city. I’m Jonathan Sposato, owner and publisher of Seattle Magazine and your host for today’s conversation.

On this show, we shine a spotlight on the people shaping the future of Seattle, from culture and business to food innovation and the environment. And today’s guest is someone whose work touches all of those. Joining me is Dr. Alejandro Grajal, the president and CEO of Woodland Park Zoo. Yes. That magical place that many of us grew up visiting and one that’s now at the cutting edge of conservation, climate, education, and urban sustainability.

Alejandro isn’t just running a zoo. He’s reimagining what a 21st century zoo can be. In a city like ours, a powerful civic space, a champion for biodiversity, and a place of wonder for future generations. So whether you’re an animal lover, a climate advocate, a curious seattleite, or all three, you’re gonna love this conversation.

Let’s dive in. 

[00:01:08] Alejandro Grajal: Hello, Alejandro. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. Jonathan, fantastic to be here.

[00:01:13] Jonathan Sposato: Yes, I’ve, really enjoyed talking with you in the past, the few times that we’ve talked, and of course I think I’ve told you, divulged to you, I have been a huge fan of the zoo ever since I was a little boy growing up in Seattle.

That was my kind of happy place, and it still is. It still is my happy place. Yes, it continues to be. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re gonna do something. fun. Yes. For our listeners to get to know you. So we’re gonna do a lightning round. So here we have this amazing opportunity with the CEO of the Woodland Park Zoo.

My gosh. Iconic big part of our community. All right. Lightning round. Alejandro, your favorite animal at the zoo? 

[00:01:52] Alejandro Grajal: It changes with the day almost. Oh, okay. Yes. oh. ’cause 

[00:01:55] Jonathan Sposato: you don’t want anybody’s, any animals, their feelings to be hurt. 

[00:01:58] Alejandro Grajal: they’re listening like you, what’s your favorite sun? or something like that.

But it depends on the day. I gotta say the other day we were raising flamingos and I went to see the baby flamingos, which are like a puff of cotton with two long legs. Oh my gosh. Under the gainly legs. Wow. Beneath it. And they were so incredible and fluffy, uhhuh. I’ve seen them with binoculars out there.

Yeah. far away. But I had ’em in my hands. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It was an incredible experience. Yeah. It was like a, bowl of cotton with very fluffy cotton, with really long legs. Yeah. Below it. It 

[00:02:38] Jonathan Sposato: was 

[00:02:38] Alejandro Grajal: fantastic. 

[00:02:38] Jonathan Sposato: I can’t imagine, I, can’t imagine what hemisphere puff of cotton with legs. that’s awesome.

[00:02:45] Alejandro Grajal: And they were so ungainly, the legs look out of Si, out of size. Yeah. And it was, they were just walking around. They just came out of the eggs. Three days ago, or four days ago. Amazing. So it was, fantastic. Amazing. 

[00:02:58] Jonathan Sposato: I had a similar experience when I held a, it wasn’t really holding, but, it attached to my finger.

A seahorse. Yeah. I could not believe it looked like it was CGI, it looked like it was fake. Like a special effect. Yeah. I could not believe that A creature so exquisite exists. Yeah. And was wrapped around my finger, okay. Lightning round. Most surprising behind the scenes moment you’ve ever had. Many, because 

[00:03:22] Alejandro Grajal: I’m, I, visit zoos all over the world, so I, see things that behind the scenes that even within my zoo that very few people see.

I gotta say one of the most moving lately, last year we had a baby gorilla that was not taken by his mom. Oh, so the mom was a first time mom didn’t know how to do it. And the keepers were bottle feeding the Baby gorilla. But it’s not good to have a gorilla raised by humans. So we flew the baby within a few less than a month, two months old. To a zoo in Kentucky. And did the 

[00:04:03] Jonathan Sposato: baby fly first class or economy? Oh yeah. no. I’m not kidding. Quite a jet. Oh yes, jet, of course. yes. Yeah. you do 

[00:04:13] Alejandro Grajal: it really well. Makes sense. Yeah. Private jet to Kentucky and the baby was taken by a foster mother that has done several babies before and she’s 47 years old.

She’s really. Beyond reproductive. So she’s like a grandma. Wow. And she took this baby, and to see that scene in Louisville, in Kentucky, to see the baby with a mom that did not belong to each other. But then, within a few days they were bonded and she was such a fantastic mom and taking care of him and allowing the keepers to bottle feed it because of course she didn’t have any milk.

The. She would bring the baby to the edge. Let the keepers bottle feed the baby and then take the baby back. And even, burp him and so on, we’re so close to primates. 

You feel that emotional empathy for these animals that behave so close to us. Yeah.

So similar to humans. It was moving even for, across the old Zoo director. These are things that really cannot stop you from thinking, wow, what a world out there. 

[00:05:25] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. I, can imagine it. That’s one of those sort of, reinforces your notion of, humanity and, what we have in common with our closest cousins.

I have to diverge from the lightning round really quickly ’cause I’m fascinated, just very curious about. I’ll boil it down to two questions. The first question is, what causes the natural mother of a primate to not To reject it to, yeah. Yeah. And is it, a naturally occurring phenomenon, nature or, something that is idiosyncratic to that particular primate?

So 

[00:05:59] Alejandro Grajal: evidently is not very common. because otherwise the, the species would go, yeah. The species would go, yeah. But evidently it happens not only in primates, it happens in almost every species. And, for primates which have a very complex social environment like us 

We are created, and I talk women, we humans, gorillas, or anglicans.

we are social animals. Yes. This idea of the nuclear family for us is a new kind of 20th century. Contact the, reality is that we raise kids in a group. Yes. And there’s always aunties and grandmothers and, older sisters and others that take care of it. Yes. So we have a very well established, we have several, two well established gorilla troops who have a male female and so on.

But this was a first time mom. And she had come to us as a young gorilla. She didn’t have the social linkages to other females. I see. She didn’t really know what to do. and it’s the kind of thing that the keepers let the baby sit, on the. And the bed for a while, but if they see that the mother doesn’t show any inclination They come up and intervene. And we waited until we were fearing that the baby was going to be dehydrated. It is unusual. it doesn’t happen very often. It happens in humans too. We know that very well. Yeah. And it’s, probably some kind of social emotional issue with first time moms or other, and, here the other females were trying to intervene.

But she wouldn’t know what to do. And, it. The baby is a tiny, go gorilla. Babies are born smaller than humans. Yeah, that makes sense actually. And these are 200 pound gorillas around, right? Yeah. So you have to be defensive about it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a happy ending in the end.

what strikes me most is the will to survive. this baby Was all by himself. And he just, the keepers just reached out and they were not sure that they, he was going to make it. And this baby really fought all the way. And now I’m really looking forward to see him as a big silver back.

And be in his own troop. Awesome. ’cause he is, he’s a fantastic personality. Yeah. 

[00:08:36] Jonathan Sposato: Awesome. And I think you’ve answered my second question I was gonna ask about on the other side, what, would cause a, more middle age or elderly grandmother aged primate to wanna take care of another baby, to f be a foster mom?

And I think the answer is that it’s part of that it takes a village to raise a. A, a little one and she still sees herself that way. Yes. I would imagine. 

[00:08:55] Alejandro Grajal: And, 

it’s a, an extraordinary evolutionary situation that there are very few animals that have menopause Among them, orcas and gorillas And humans. The fact that orcas, gorillas, and humans live almost half of their lives after the end, their reproductive life means that there’s a very important evolutionary and social role for these females. Yeah. To help raise kids and to help guide the family. Elephants also. Have menopausal females. Yeah. And they, lead the troop. So in this case, I think there’s an innate nature to these animals that have long lifespans to the social advantages and evolutionary advantages of raising kids and keeping the leadership of the troop or the pod or, the social group. They are the cultural history of, the species.

And that’s what this female was Yeah. who was a leader, an alpha female. Yeah. And their role is to take care of. Kids around the troop. Yeah. And she’s done 

[00:10:02] Jonathan Sposato: it several times. Amazing. We could spend the entire podcast on this story alone. Yes. But, we won’t. And maybe, that’s just a part of my o Open invitation to have you back Alejandro for, part two or part, Yes. or, have the, some of your really smart zookeepers, whom I’ve met. yes. come on board as well to talk about the, exact things that they do. Okay. If you weren’t running a zoo, what would you be doing? 

[00:10:27] Alejandro Grajal: these days, I don’t know if I told you, I’m a, professional painter too, and I 

[00:10:31] Jonathan Sposato: have seen those 

[00:10:33] Alejandro Grajal: and, I actually this year I’m having two gallery shows, so 

[00:10:38] Jonathan Sposato: yeah.

Tell us 

[00:10:39] Alejandro Grajal: if I, 

wasn’t working, I would love to be a, full-time painter. Yeah. Right now I’m a part-time. Yeah. It really gives me a lot of happiness, so I would do that. 

[00:10:48] Jonathan Sposato: Other than your office. 

[00:10:50] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah. Where could people see some of your paintings? So there’s my website. al.art Uhhuh. Okay.

And there’s my Instagram at Alle. Gral. 

[00:10:59] Jonathan Sposato: And, we’ll put both of those on the page that this, podcast is hosted on. What’s one book or movie that deeply influenced your view of nature or leadership? 

[00:11:12] Alejandro Grajal: I’m on the, a creature of the, sixties and seventies and I think, and I was raised in a small apartment in a big family, so it was, nature was, my parents were not very nature oriented.

My mother had, yeah, same. My mother had plastic plants. Oh. To give you a sense of how bad was that? But to me there was a Jack cto, shows, which most people probably don’t remember. I remember. Yeah. And, to me, CTO was Odyssey. Yeah, Oh, I loved it. I would slap my si my siblings, because I don’t want, I didn’t want anybody to have any, make any noise.

I wanted to go underwater. I with Jack au 

[00:11:54] Jonathan Sposato: I was fascinated by that show too. the ship and the submersibles. Oh yeah, Please go on 

[00:11:59] Alejandro Grajal: and. Luckily to me, I was a, actually able to dive in the Calypso andSo. That’s what it was. I didn’t, so I, was there, I became a marine biologist. And when they came to Venezuela, where I was raised, I actually had a chance to go with a Calypso to one of the outer islands.

In the Caribbean. With, them. It was fantastic. The dream come true. I, didn’t realize Khali so was a lot smaller than he looked on tv, Uhhuh. Yes. And everybody was really stinky ’cause there were, there was only one bathroom there. Yeah. But to me, I remember that was what kind of inclined me to say I want to be in nature.

I want to understand Life better. and for an urban kid in a small apartment in a very large city, that was a big leap. my parents. Took years for them to understand why I chose that career. They were supportive, but it was an unusual choice for, my family.

[00:13:00] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And, you and I share that. I love that, Jacque CTO show. Yeah. I re I revisited it somewhere on YouTube recently and, I just love the way he talks. Yeah. And, I had a choice. One Christmas, I remember I asked my parents for either a scale model of the Calypso.

Yeah. Or the space 1999 eagle transporter. See, my life could have gone either way. Yeah. Alejandro and I got that eagle one transporter, so I became a more of, a little bit more of a space geek and went into technology instead. But, ah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I. They say never meet your heroes. And now I’m hearing from you that, the calypso was a lot smaller in person and that it smelled bad, only one bathroom and all that.

But man, what an incredible experience. Yeah. 

[00:13:46] Alejandro Grajal: And, ever since, I, still dive today and it’s, my passion. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:13:53] Jonathan Sposato: So let’s talk about your personal and leadership journey. You’ve had a fascinating career in conservation and education. What brought you here? To lead the Woodland Park Zoo, and what continues to inspire you in this role?

[00:14:06] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah, so Woodland Park Zoo is one of those organizations that really has been at the leading edge of innovation in our industry, in the zoo and aquarium industry. For, the longest time. Even from the 1980s and nineties, the transformation that Woodland Park Zoo had between, cement cages with iron bars To immersive. Exhibits that, that look boundless and have kind of these immersive ecosystem view, really revolutionary concept in the eighties. And there were only two or three zoos that were creating those kinds of exhibits. And now it’s every modern zoo has those kinds of exhibit, but still. The philosophical principles of the, zoo as a agent of ecological education.

It was new in that time. And then in the 1990s, this idea of zoos as agents of field conservation and supporting field conservation projects and so on. There were also a handful of zoos doing that. And now. This idea of zoos as agents of social change. And the idea of engaging people in participation in conservation is what?

Brought me here, this idea of the zoo of the 21st century and Woodland Park Zoo was asking that question at the right moment, when I was at the, at that time in my career where I could actually go to that. And of course, a combination of. That innovation plus Seattle being a hub of innovation In many respects, technology. You’ve been involved with Aerospace. forestry tourism it. It’s a city that really feeds on innovation and, new ideas. And I found that the appetite for that here in Seattle with my board of directors And basically anybody that you walk around.

Everybody’s hungry for new ideas and innovation. And I think that is reflected across the board. Almost. That’s one of the things that brought me here. And I never lived in Seattle and it’s a fantastically beautiful place. the combination of Seattle and a a, forward looking zoo was 

really what brought me in.

[00:16:25] Jonathan Sposato: I’m really glad that you said all those things, Alejandro. we’re really, I’m actually really honored to have you, especially honored to have you as the guest, today on this podcast because we have a firm, belief that. What happens in Seattle impacts the rest of the world. And do you, feel that way about the zoo?

yes. Park, 

[00:16:45] Alejandro Grajal: the zoo, we’re not the biggest. I just came from Singapore Zoo, it’s breathtaking. They have five different zoos and then you have San Diego that runs, 6 million visitors a year. So we’re not the biggest, budget, not the biggest area, not the biggest collection.

But Woodland Park Zoo, still among the top, 10 zoos in the country, but it’s still a zoo that I would say punches above its weight. In, innovation. In new ideas and bringing forward thinking, testing the edges or of the forefront of what zoos. Are supposed to do as agents of social change.

And I think I’m I’m very proud of that because I don’t have any chip on my shoulder. I really think that leading the industry and showing the boundaries of where we are is what makes Woodland Park Zoo special. 

[00:17:43] Jonathan Sposato: Excellent. Excellent. Let’s go there then. What is your definition of success for the Woodland Park Zoo and.

What is also your vision for the zoo in the next, say, five to 10 years? 

[00:17:54] Alejandro Grajal: So the definition of success for Woodland Park Zoo and perhaps for any forward-thinking zoo these days is how much can you really lead the engagement of people in conservation? How much can you. Lean into driving behavior changes and consumer changes and civic changes that help the planet to be a better place for humans and for animals and for biodiversity.

Because really the biggest ethical question that we have these days is, can we humans and. Animals and plants live in the same planet. And can we do it for the future generations? And I think the, beauty of a zoo is that it can be a, an effective conservation organization. And we are, we have significant projects around the world that help animals and habitats and create national parks and protected areas.

But I think The secret weapon is really driving people. To take conservation action to think of themselves as agents of change. And that is a voice that the zoo has as a giant megaphone. 1.4 million people come through our gates every year. It’s one of the most attended destinations.

In our region. And when people come in and see that we are taking really amazing care of our animals and they can do and feel empowered to do changes, I think that’s the definition of success. 

[00:19:31] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. And, just outta curiosity, I’m a, product ui UX guy. Yeah. So to speak. Applying that to the zoo in terms of its actual execution.

Are there specific activations at the zoo or each exhibit Touches on, that species, relationship with the environment or the fact that they may be going extinct, is how do you get people to understand these things 

[00:19:57] Alejandro Grajal: many ways? One of them, of course, is that we talk in a consistent voice.

And that, is important. To have a consistent voice. In every touchpoint that you have, whether it’s at the zoo or social media, we also have a giant virtual footprint. Yeah. over 35,000 family members. We have three times our audience is virtual. Versus what we get an on site.

So every touch point we talk about, not only the things that we’re doing, but the things that you can do. So we’re conjugating conservation as a verb. In the second voice. We’re not talking about I or we all the time. We’re talking about you and them. Good one. And I think that’s important to, to say that, but the biggest, and I’ve done a lot of research on conservation psychology and environmental psychology, and the biggest thing is that when you’re in an environment where you are having fun, where you are enjoying.

The time with your friends or relatives or anything else, and you are seeing that there’s possibilities to help these animals, that you make a, change, there’s a, like a switch in your mind where you actually can think about empathizing with these animals. And doing something for them versus seeing biodiversity crisis or climate crisis.

Somebody else’s problem. And the idea of the zoo is as a essential place where you actually are there and you can feel that you are involved with it. So in a way, that is the input, the output is that we need to measure how much people are actually changing their behaviors. And we have created a very significant.

Social research team To understand how are we influencing that mind. And it’s not just actions. We’re looking at intentions, we’re looking at communications, we’re looking at voting and civic records so that, to see how these changes are actually affecting people’s trajectory, I think is, what we’re investing in right 

[00:22:11] Jonathan Sposato: now.

Very good. So, then related to that, I have a couple of questions around, conservation and, climate leadership. Other than changing the hearts and minds of visitors, are there specific things that the Woodland Park Zoo is doing that contributes to global or local conservation efforts today? 

[00:22:29] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah, so we, we have conservation projects in almost 22 countries right now.

Wow. And we have, I would say two flagship projects. One of them is a long time. Project in Papua New Guinea, which is one of the, one of those countries that almost nobody can actually point in a map. But it’s one of the most diverse countries in the world. Is almost 70% of the animals and plants that live in Papua New Guinea live nowhere else.

[00:22:57] Jonathan Sposato: Wow. 

[00:22:57] Alejandro Grajal: And it’s also one of the least developed. Countries in the world, so it has the most natural area. Yeah. So for 25 years we’ve been working in Papua New Guinea to create arrangement with local tribes and communities to create protected areas. And about. Eight years ago, we managed to create the largest and first protected area in Papua New Guinea.

Almost half a million acres of Of rainforest from the cloud forest at almost, 15,000 feet all the way to coral reefs. And it’s probably one of the most diverse. Protected areas in the world. And we continue to work with communities there to create projects. and support other communities in their conservation quest.

And here in the Pacific Northwest is our other flagship where we have projects. Where we are breeding species that are endangered and reintroducing back in the wild, like western pond turtles and silver spot butterflies. 

And in addition to do, we’re having a large network of citizen science and participatory conservation here in the Pacific Northwest, while also advancing legislation and pushing legislation in here in Washington state about conservation.

So it’s a multi-pronged approach to save. Species and habitats here in the Pacific Northwest. I see. Very cool. 

[00:24:21] Jonathan Sposato: Very cool. If I may, it may be an antiquated question. Maybe the, really great answer is, this is not even a relevant question anymore, but I was gonna ask you, how do you address criticism of zoos in the context of animal welfare and ethics?

[00:24:38] Alejandro Grajal: First, let me start with one of the phrases that I love from our own strategic plan is that all animals and habitats are now in human care. I. And this is an important principle when you understand that what you’re doing, the car you’re driving, the products that you put in your supermarket card and the way you vote and talk and use your social media affects the livelihoods of polar bears in the Arctic, penguins in the Antarctic, and gorillas in the Congo.

And that is. Whether we take care of them or not, we’re taking care of them or not right now with our own actions every day. Good point. So this idea that there’s a wild and there’s the human environment and that you need to keep animals happy and free in the en in the wild. Is a fidget of our minds.

The reality, if you talk about tigers in India, they live in small parks. Some of these parks have five tigers. They’re getting ge genetic erosion because they don’t have a capability of breeding or interbreeding with other tigers elsewhere. This principle that all animals are in human care means that we as humans have a big ethical question right now.

And is whether we can take care of this planet or not. I understand also that zoos make a very difficult ethical choice. When you have animals. In captive conditions. In human care. And you do it for the purpose of moving conservation? Yes. Along. Yeah. And you’re doing it for the purpose of driving people’s behaviors.

And understanding that everything in the planet is in your hands. Yeah. That ethical choice is important to understand because those zoos that do not understand why they have animals, I think they’re destined to the dustbin of history. They don’t understand why they exist. And it’s important for us to understand exactly why we exist and why we make the ethical choice of taking care of animals in human care.

Plus, I just wanna say animals in accredited zoos like ours. Live long, happy lives. In, an incredibly well professional environment that we provide. I joke, but it’s a sad joke. Animals in our zoo get better healthcare than 99% of Americans. 

[00:27:10] Jonathan Sposato: Yes. 

[00:27:12] Alejandro Grajal: Yes. We have four veterinarians, 14 veterinarian assistants.

Every animal gets an annual checkup. Every animal gets healthcare. We have about, 20 animals that are in geriatric care. Wow. And they get physical rehabilitation. They get laser therapy. They get pain medication for arthritis. Wow. All animals got medicine and supplements, and everybody has an individualized diet That is designed by a nutritionist, a PhD nutritionist. So yeah, it’s, the highest professional care that you can give an animal. Yeah. Is what we give to our animals. Yeah. We weight them every day. We understand whether they’re overweight or underweight, what their hormones are going. So we take outmost care of our animals.

In the way that for sure. Most people would not realize how much goes into that. Yeah. But the reality is there’s a purpose. No, it’s not the end. Yeah. Yeah. The animals are not the end. The animals are the purpose for driving conservation behaviors. 

[00:28:19] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. 

[00:28:19] Alejandro Grajal: Yes, 

[00:28:20] Jonathan Sposato: very well said. That was very eloquent and I appreciated that.

I am enriched by that answer. I, see firsthand how much I activated on issues of, the environment and climate change as a result of my, going to the zoo, often growing up. And I see that in my 15-year-old boy who is crazy. About animals and is considering, marine biology or, something, it changes every couple of months for him.

Yeah. but that, one is the most consistent and that is the direct result of, him being fascinated by the penguin ex exhibit. So that, trade off. Perhaps it’s not even a huge trade off precisely because of the amazing professional care that the animals do receive that increases their quality of life, is really important to know.

So that, that’s really great. How about climate change? What role does the Woodland Park Zoo or any urban zoo, like yours. Play in the fight against climate change, particularly 

[00:29:20] Alejandro Grajal: for us in Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle. it is one thing that I keep reminding everybody that we live in the largest temperate rainforest in the world.

And it’s something that most people don’t realize. A, rainforest is a giant carbon sink. To save as much of these rainforest as we can is essential to balance the carbon equation in the planet. So for us to have a Pacific Northwest emphasis in our conservation projects, our interpretation on our education means that it is important for people to understand that it’s not only about emissions of carbon, which we do with transportation and heating and so on, but the idea that.

There’s a natural process for carbon to be sequestered and driven. Into, trees and nature. We talk about climate in many, ways. One of them is that we are trying to make the zoo as sustainable as possible. So for example, we’re in a almost 10 year quest now to electrify the whole zoo.

So we don’t use fossil fuels. Both our cars, boilers, water heaters, et cetera. is a transformation. It’s gonna take us many millions of dollars and many years. But we’re doing it. This idea of reducing our cardboard footprint in every operations that we do. So for example, almost all the food utensils that you get at our restaurants, everything is compostable.

The idea of we’ve being able to reduce almost 87% of our waste because we have an advanced composting systems where we compose all our waste from animals and. Plants in the zoo. So we don’t actually put ’em on a, in the trash. Yeah. But we actually use them as fertilizer, in fact. Yeah.

That’s fantastic. We sell it, it’s zoo do. It’s, that’s right. I saw that this, these super powerful brand uhhuh, people make lines and, get reservations. I think the rhino, zoo 

[00:31:22] Jonathan Sposato: do is the most popular. Is that right? 

[00:31:24] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah, 

But all these signals are to let people know that.

We are striving to minimize our footprint on the planet. And this is something that all of us can do. 

[00:31:35] Jonathan Sposato: Wonderful. Yeah. Very good. Let’s, talk about the zoo’s role in, in our city specifically. In what ways is the zoo a cultural and civic institution beyond being a place to see the animals 

[00:31:49] Alejandro Grajal: is one of the most attended.

Venues in Seattle. And the Seattle, a larger region. Yeah. literally it’s not just Seattle, it’s the Pacific Northwest from Vancouver in the north to Portland in the south. Yeah. 1.3, 1.4 million visits a year. It’s very significant. It’s probably the largest nonprofit visitation.

That’s right. Every venue. Yeah. We compete, we compete with the Spade Needle and the Pike Place market. But of course, those are different. different animals. 

[00:32:19] Jonathan Sposato: You do a lot of concerts? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:32:21] Alejandro Grajal: So surprisingly, Woodland Park Zoo is one of the largest, if not the largest outdoor music venues.

Yeah. In Seattle. 12 concerts during the summer. Yeah. almost five to 6,000 people per concert. Yeah. Amazing. And almost 40 years family oriented. People come with their babies and so on. We have a Divo concert this summer, and I gotta tell you, people are gonna come with their babies all dressed up in plastic suit.

Did you say Divo? 

[00:32:46] Jonathan Sposato: Divo. Yes, I am. So there. 

[00:32:48] Alejandro Grajal: Yes. Alejandro, 

[00:32:49] Jonathan Sposato: I wanna, I’m gonna seek you out on that one. Yeah. You have a 

[00:32:52] Alejandro Grajal: connection there. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. we also do all kinds of events, picnics and corporate events. Over a hundred weddings a year. But then I also gotta say, we have a responsibility of one of the big cultural institutions here to support the whole cultural sector.

So we’ve been, leaders in Inspire Washington, which is an a coalition of cultural organization. Yeah. Together with the symphony, the art museum, the opera. all the organizations. And we actively support and present an advocate for the cultural sector In, Seattle, which needs help.

it, Seattle has taken that cultural sector for granted. And since Covid, I think we have tectonic shifts In the marketplace for culture. in the world. And here in Seattle. This is my chance to whoever is hearing. We need to support our cultural institutions and the public needs to support not only in private, but also through legislation supporting tax levies and other ways that open spaces, musical venues, theatrical venues.

Pictorial ne venues. Are required. The vibrancy of Seattle depends on that cultural sector. For sure. People come here to work because of the salaries and the technology and all of that, but the vibrancy of the city is defined by its cultural sector. 

[00:34:23] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. I, couldn’t agree more. I, think that vibrancy that you described is a difference maker in how a city.

Becomes a world-class city. That’s correct. there are other cities, I think, I’m not gonna name names where, there’s a, some vibrant technology or there’s a great business segment. Perfectly fine place to live, but lacking. Yeah. That strong arts and culture and these things that you describe, it makes it less appealing.

ultimately people, the throughput is not as high in terms of people wanting to go there and wanting to visit and, be a part of it 

[00:34:54] Alejandro Grajal: and establish and live in that place. Yeah. So even the technology sector or a large, fortune 500 companies that we have here need to remember.

This is what brings that elite workforce To, to our place. Yeah. I’m very proud of the role that Woodland Park Zoo has played in supporting that cultural sector, but it needs everybody’s help. 

[00:35:17] Jonathan Sposato: Are you partnering with schools, local tribes or community groups to deepen, engagement with Yeah.

Yeah. 

[00:35:23] Alejandro Grajal: Every day. Okay. yeah, we partner with over 500 organiza civic organizations around the city. we’re also providing. Over 200,000 free and discounted admissions to the zoo. And that is also with civic organization. We have with, refugee Women’s Alliance, with Boys and Girls Clubs.

With schools, of course. This particular season between late April, early May, I call it the yellow bus tsunami. because there’s a field trip. Time and the school buses come and come and it’s wait’s. The whole parking lot is full of yellow buses. But yeah, over 60,000 school children come to the zoo, during the year.

[00:36:07] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. Let’s switch topics a bit to day in the life of you as the CEO and, by way of that we’ll segue to some of your most important goals and maybe ways that we can inspire or activate our listeners to help. What’s been your biggest challenge as CEO so far, and what did it teach you?

[00:36:28] Alejandro Grajal: first of all, I’m not a trained manager. I’m a biologist Uhhuh, I’ve been to what I, would call the school of hard knocks, but yeah, me too. I, think I was there class of 89. Yeah. Yeah. It, probably the most interesting learning that I can tell right now is, the culture of the organization.

Really is. You can, have these grandiose plans, you can create these grand visions. Everybody can agree with it. But if, you don’t have that in the spirit, in the DNA of your board and your employees and your volunteers It’s almost impossible to execute. So to me that hunger to really drive change.

That hunger for innovation and really. Agreeing on principles such as we need to run our operations in a more sustainable way. We need to openly talk about climate change mitigation. We need to openly talk about the biodiversity crisis, and we need to help people to make the change That’s gonna really support that.

I can say it, but if my employees and the volunteers on the board doesn’t believe it, or they just. Pay lip service is not gonna happen. So the biggest job of A CEO, I would call it a cheerleading. This idea that you really drive change and you make sure that people feel that they’re agents of change.

And I think that has been the most interesting aspect because it’s all about human psychology. It’s all about emotional loads and emotional commitment. And I think that’s. Perhaps the most interesting aspect of being a CEO these days. 

[00:38:14] Jonathan Sposato: More broadly, what kind of leadership does a city like Seattle need in this?

What I think of as an important inflection point in terms of climate, cultural, and social change. It’s 

[00:38:28] Alejandro Grajal: a difficult job. Yeah. I would say that even I started as a CEO here in Seattle 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago, and the qualifications I had 10 years ago were not for today. It, the job has gotten more complicated.

Between the pandemic and the current instability that we have right now. I feel that right now I come to the office. I don’t know what’s gonna happen. 

[00:38:55] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah, I know what you mean. 

[00:38:57] Alejandro Grajal: And, it’s, it almost feels like, covid again. Yeah. Is that It does, what do we do? do we sign this contract?

We don’t sign this contract. Do we launch this program or We don’t launch this program. I like change, I like excitement. I, like new things, but the fact that. There are weeks at a time that you come and you have no idea what’s gonna happen. That week, it’s just crazy. It, really is exhausting. But at the same time, I would say what kind of CEO you need these days is a CEO that understand the principles of empathy, that understands the principles of catalyzing. People’s behavior and people’s change. And if you understand those principles, it doesn’t matter what industry you are, whether you’re in the technology or aerospace or engineering or nonprofit, you are here to change the world.

And to change it, to make it a better place. And if you understand those principles, then your role as A CEO is to make sure that you facilitate that. And that’s how I define my 

[00:40:05] Jonathan Sposato: job. That’s great. I’m gonna steal it and use it, for myself. Alright. when people ask me, what, do you do as CEOI, I do what he said.

So what would you activate our listeners to do at this moment? What would be the most helpful thing for you in the zoo and your mission? Be 

[00:40:23] Alejandro Grajal: responsible citizens. I, of course, buy a membership, come to the zoo. all the, other things that I would, yeah. But the reality is that.

it’s surprising to me and I’m an immigrant to this country how Americans are oblivious to the footprint that they have around the world. And it’s not just ecological footprint. It’s a political and cultural footprint. This idea that you go to a fishing village in Peru and you hear Michael Jackson That’s right on the, speaker.

Yeah. And the fact that you turn on TV in a village in Malaysia. And they have CNN news. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Mind boggling. Yeah. That Americans don’t realize how much footprint they have. Yeah. And particularly with the changes that we’re doing, where actually we’re abandoning that footprint.

Which is a force for good. In many cases. Not always, but in many cases. So my message to whoever is hearing right now is to be conscientious as As an American, I think it is important to understand that we have a huge responsibility In the future of this planet.

The kinds of things that we purchase, the clothes that we use, the car that we buy, the way we vote, those elections really matter. And now we’ve learned that they really matter. Be aware that you don’t live in your neighborhood or your city—what you do every day, what you buy on that credit card really has global repercussions.

Yeah, 

[00:41:59] Jonathan Sposato: sure does. I went back and forth growing up. Born in London, lived in Brooklyn, New York, then Hong Kong, then Seattle. Very similar. Yes. Yeah, that’s right. we talked about that and, I remember when I was overseas, all I watched. While I spoke the local language. Yeah. a Cantonese, when I was in Hong Kong, all I watched were American shows.

Yes. I didn’t care about the other shows. Yeah. Now it’s a little bit more to reverse. Yeah. But, all I cared about were the, American shows. I remember being a teenager and visiting some family in the UK, in London, and it was a teenager that I was visiting with who was British, but was listening to a cassette tape of, Bruce Springsteen.

Yes. Course born the USA. Wait, why? And they may not 

[00:42:42] Alejandro Grajal: even understand the words. Exactly. Yeah. in the uk Yes. 

[00:42:46] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. And so I, I remember, being in Vietnam later and, my dad, my father was a Vietnam veteran, and that is a country when you visit Vietnam, after, this was sometime in the.

Maybe early two thousands. I think it was. Yeah, it was very much open to tourism. Yeah. They were very welcoming. I was quite surprised by how much Americana American culture. Yes. The war itself, while at one’s painful, was also a source of. Interest. Yes. and very much an inseparable part of their culture, in terms of the things that they sold on the streets.

And you could buy for a dollar a copy of Gram Green’s, the Quiet American Yes. from a street vendor. It did hit home very much the cultural and social footprint that we have and, I think most Americans are not particularly cognizant of that. And then how we relate that back to how we change our actions, is a very, important point that you make, in terms of what we do and even how we carry ourselves abroad.

Yeah. 

[00:43:52] Alejandro Grajal: You speak Cantonese, you understand a, huge legacy millennial culture. I’m, my native language is Spanish. Also, a global language and culture, but, I grew up in Venezuela, The national sport in Venezuela Baseball and Right. Sure. The main reason is, yeah.

and there’s, Close to 30 big league Venezuelan players in the big leagues today. Right now in the, major league baseball. And the reason is that, Americans basically came and developed Venezuela and baseball is the, the national sport. Yeah. It’s hard to realize.

Sports culture, politics, visions of the world. This idea of possibilities and opportunity is such an American concept. 

I regret that we’re walking away from that idea. Yeah. Yeah. Because this idea of American as the leading edge of progress As the land of opportunity.

I think it is a universal concept that everybody aspires to. That’s right. 

[00:45:04] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. It is my personal. Hope that what we’re experiencing now is a bit of a blip. Yeah. And that perhaps the world will give us credit for a lot of the good stuff that came before. And I think hopefully a lot of the good stuff that will Yeah.

Will soon come I after. I hope. Yeah. 

[00:45:22] Alejandro Grajal: I hope. Because one of the things that I’ve, experienced in my life also is that democracies are very fragile. And these ideas that democracies are incredibly imperfect and yes. Democracies have up and downs. Like marriages and like life And siblings.

Businesses, they’re bad periods and Good periods. That’s right. Yeah. And I hope I agree with you. Yeah. I hope this is just a blip. 

[00:45:46] Jonathan Sposato: Yeah. Yeah. So how can our readers, our listeners. Find out more about the zoo. What’s the best way? 

[00:45:53] Alejandro Grajal: many ways. literally the best way, of course is on a gorgeous day like today.

75 degrees and sunny just really come and you don’t, by the way, you don’t have to have a kid to come to the zoo. I. The zoo is a fantastic destination. OH’S For date nights 

[00:46:10] Jonathan Sposato: too. 

[00:46:10] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah. Date nights. I think if you have somebody that you really are interested in, is the most fantastic non-committal.

Date destination. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause you don’t, and it’s not as pretentious as going to an art gallery or something. Yeah. You don’t need to have dinner, you don’t need to have, drinks. You don’t need to commit to anything. You can talk about monkeys doing monkey business, and then, who knows where the conversation goes.

Yeah, And then, you can throw some indirect and, sing. So it’s a, fantastic day. Destination enjoy. Without kids, actually, our population of visitors that are coming without kids is growing leaps and bounds. It’s a green oasis in a large metropolitan place like ours, when you need peace and quiet, I would say this is one of the best places.

Oh yeah. For peace and quiet. Peace and quiet. You just sit on a bench and look at the kids running, or look at the monkeys playing, or look at the giraffes walking on the grass. You can feel that your brain and your soul is unloading. All that cargo that you’re carrying. And I really feel that oasis mentality is what we need most.

And it’s not on your screen, it’s not on your phone, it’s not on Netflix. It is really unloading your mind. And there are very few places where you can do that here in the Pacific Northwest with Lucky. you can go out Puget Sound, you can hike in the mountains, but the zoo is one of those magical places.

Of course social media, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. We’re incredibly active. We have millions of followers. Animals galore babies all the time. So really scroll through our pages and of course our website. 

[00:47:54] Jonathan Sposato: That’s great. What new exciting things are coming that we should know about? 

[00:47:59] Alejandro Grajal: there’s a lot on the pipeline.

We brought a animatronic dinosaur exhibit, so if you have a 10-year-old out there, 10 to 15-year-old, it’s, real size moving dinosaurs is always fascinating. Wow. Of course. VR experience, virtual reality, which is our first at the zoo with a great African migration. But then next year, next summer, we’re opening our largest exhibit in our history almost.

It’s a call the forest trailhead, and it’s opening May of 2026. And that is going to have tree kangaroos. Red Pandas monitored lizards from Papua New Guinea and other parts of the world to talk about forest and climate and the role that forests play in mitigating climate change. So it’s gonna be one of our first thematic exhibits.

It’s gonna be gorgeous. It’s a beautiful round building with glass all around. It’s gonna be spectacular with a, canopy walk, so you’re gonna be walking along the branches of trees. Wow. Then we’re opening also next spring, a. Parakeet feeding aviary. So you’re gonna have the opportunity to feed the parakeet.

Neat. And then we’re also, bringing a flamingo exhibit. a, flamingo experience. So we have a flamingo exhibit, but this is gonna be an experience where you actually walk with the flamingos. Get 

[00:49:21] Jonathan Sposato: out. 

[00:49:21] Alejandro Grajal: Yes. Wow. So you’re gonna sit down, the flamingos are gonna come around you and you’re gonna feed the flamingos.

Yeah. And it’s gonna be a fantastic big, puffs 

[00:49:30] Jonathan Sposato: of cotton with long legs. 

[00:49:31] Alejandro Grajal: Yeah, in this case, they’re all big puffs of pink feathers, uhhuh. So if you’re into pink feathers, that’s your experience. That’s amazing. Yeah. That sounds like a lot. 

[00:49:40] Jonathan Sposato: That’s incredible actually. All this stuff.

[00:49:42] Alejandro Grajal: we’re, busy. I, would say, yeah, we’re busy and, our team really loves it. And, big summer, this summer, big summer, next summer. And then of course, during the winter we have this fantastic lantern show that is become a classic now. I’ve bet. Yeah. So the zoo is open 365 days a year, yeah.

Yeah. That’s a fun one. 

[00:50:06] Jonathan Sposato: Dr. Alejandro Grajal. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being such an articulate, intelligent, and inspiring guest on our podcast. I believe one of the. Most important Seattle area institutions. Our own Woodland Park Zoo is in your great hands. We’re very inspired by the conversation today, so thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Thank you for listening to the Seattle Magazine podcast. You can always find us on seattle mag.com. A special thank you to the entire Seattle Magazine staff and to podcast producer Nick Patri. Until next time, let’s keep celebrating Seattle.